“I acquired caught within the enamel of the ideas that preserve me awake,” Stefan Babcock sings on ‘Paranoid’, a blistering spotlight off PUP‘s new album Who Will Look After the Canines?. Gnawing at intrusive ideas is baked into the Canadian punk outfit’s DNA, however the despair that pervades the follow-up to 2022’s The Unraveling of PUPTheBand is so visceral that it threatens to throw the band’s signature mixture of darkness and snark method off stability. Babcock wrote extra, and extra alone, than he has for another PUP file, and whereas studying to concentrate on his headspace was an important a part of the method, inspiration additionally struck by practising the issues that grounded and distracted him. If the thought that stored him awake was a music he couldn’t fairly end, he’d binge-watch YouTube. Regardless of how exasperated or sick he was, he’d take care of the canine. And when the titular query felt like an actual saving grace, he’d stroll a protracted sufficient distance for it to really feel hilariously overdramatic. Once you blow it out of proportion, PUP counsel, the uncooked reality can ring louder than ever.
We caught up with PUP’s Stefan Babcock to speak about skateboarding, Teenage Engineering’s OP-1, strolling the canine for hours on finish, and different inspirations behind their new LP, which is out at the moment.
Strolling the canine
You specify “ten thousand hours a day, particularly within the winter.” Did this behavior begin within the winter? What’s the timeline right here?
I’ve a canine that’s 4 and a half years previous. He’s a husky shepherd combine, so he wants a lot train. It’s at all times been a number of taking him out, doing lengthy walks daily. I discovered that I used to be actually lonely a number of the time scripting this file, which we’re most likely gonna discuss. [laughs] And the canine was sort of the saving grace for me. The way in which that I coped with a number of it was going for actually lengthy walks with this canine. I say particularly within the winter as a result of in Canada, it may simply get so brutal, and there’s one thing actually particular to me about getting all of your gear on and simply dealing with the weather. One thing about that makes me really feel a lot extra alive than – it’s April and I’m in California proper now and I stroll exterior in a T-shirt, and it’s not too scorching, and it’s positively not chilly. It’s simply excellent. It doesn’t fairly make you are feeling alive in the identical method as strolling out and it’s in the midst of winter in Canada and there’s three toes of snow on the bottom and also you’re freezing your fucking ass off and the canine’s going nuts and also you stroll exhausting and quick to heat up. There’s one thing actually particular about that.
I did a number of strolling in massive empty golf programs within the winter when there was plenty of snow. Being bundled up in opposition to the weather and having my AirPods in – it may really feel such as you’re going into area, ? [laughs] Such as you’re within the moon touchdown or one thing. There’s one thing actually introspective about that complete expertise to me. That’s the place I used to be capable of heal from a number of the shit that I used to be going by and the place I used to be capable of direct a number of consideration inwards and tune in to a few of my deeper ideas.
I’m curious if the road in ‘Hallways’ got here first or if the title was one thing you already had in thoughts.
I didn’t consider it as a title until a lot, a lot later. I didn’t know I used to be beginning to write a file, but it surely was the primary sentence that I wrote down that will make it onto this album. It was very a lot the start of the journey for me was considering, “Who will take care of the canine?”
What did you find out about your canine throughout these walks?
I discovered that he’s truly extraordinarily in tune with at the very least my feelings. Regardless that he’s rambunctious, he’s gotta exit regardless of my temper, he is aware of – there have been days that I’d lie down in the midst of that golf course and simply be like, “Proper now, I simply can’t.” And he would go loopy working round me in circles, after which he would simply calmly lie down and lick my face till I used to be able to stand up.That was probably the most stunning, heartwarming factor. I imply, many of the mendacity down on the golf course was due to intense emotional ache, however there was at some point the place I had COVID, and it was at its worst. I used to be alone with the canine. I used to be like, “Canine desires to go to the golf course – we’re going.” About fifteen minutes into the stroll, I used to be like, “I simply must lie down within the snow – my physique can’t go on.” And his first response was to try to drag me, seize me by the hood and kinda drag me. And when he realized that that’s not what was occurring, he simply kinda lay down and waited for me till I used to be capable of get my ass up and preserve going. It felt like he was in it with me. He was in all of the bullshit. He’s at all times a contented canine, however I really feel like he had a agency grasp on human emotion, and that was the primary time that I actually thought, “This canine is considering issues that aren’t simply himself.”
Not talking to anybody for days on finish
I’m assuming this coincided with this time interval and needing to be alone.
Yeah, there was a number of that. This isn’t a breakup file, however that is the primary file that I wrote as a single individual. The dynamic with the band will be fairly contentious. We’re greatest buddies, however we get on one another’s nerves and we battle lots. Particularly once we’re within the course of of creating a file, issues can get actually tense. So it was sort of a purposeful resolution the place all of us again away from our friendship a little bit bit once we’re making data as a result of we’re already spending daily collectively within the jam area, and we simply don’t wish to socialize and see one another. Prior to now, I’d flip all these social must the opposite individual that I used to be residing with, and this was the primary time I didn’t have that.
I actually retreated into myself scripting this file, and I discovered solace in simply writing. I wrote a lot greater than I’ve ever written. I wrote daily. These winters are lengthy and lonely in Canada. I spent many of the summer time once we have been scripting this file up at a cabin in Northern Canada – I’ve a little bit cabin in the midst of nowhere. I simply spent a number of time there with the canine, simply dialed in, targeted. The issues that stored me sane and on observe have been the canine and songwriting continually. I believe if I had been feeling some kind of artistic block, I’d have had a complete meltdown. However, fortunately, the songs have been coming actual quick and flowing in a method that they by no means have earlier than, and I used to be capable of simply fill that void of human interplay with simply making issues daily and feeling good about the truth that I used to be being productive and happy with the stuff that I used to be writing.
Do you discover that there’s much less of a filter whenever you’re writing and never interacting with lots of people?
I don’t assume so. I believe I’ve at all times been actually open and trustworthy within the songs, perhaps to a fault. That’s not an space I battle in. I’ve at all times been very true to myself in these songs and unfiltered, typically to the detriment of relationships. [laughs] I believe all it was was, I used to be very introverted. I used to be actually capable of dig deep inside me on these songs. I wasn’t distracted. I used to be simply hyper-focused and actually in contact with the issues I used to be feeling and what I needed to get out of this file, far more than another file we’ve made. That would have been a extremely damaging, horrible expertise being alone as a lot as I used to be once we’re making this file. However someway, it simply changed into this very constructive, fantastic expertise that I’m grateful for. I don’t know if I’ll ever be as creatively prolific or as in contact with my creativity as I felt the yr that this.
Making comics
I began drawing comics some time in the past. I’m a horrible, horrible artist, however I believe there’s some allure to it. I’ve at all times needed to inform these tales, however I’ve struggled with it. I’m not an creator. I’m not a novelist. I’ve struggled with the format to inform these tales. I began studying a bunch of autobiographical comedian writers, individuals who simply made artwork that was actually easy however efficient and instructed these humorous tales about their lives. And I kinda felt like that’s the place I needed to go. I felt like a number of these comics that I make and those that I learn are very carefully related to the way in which that I music write, which is making an attempt to seize some kind of – I don’t wanna say juvenile, however a lighthearted model of darkness. This Allie Brosh e-book that I learn, it’s about her overcoming main depressive dysfunction, I believe. It’s about her popping out of the darkness, and it’s so fucking humorous. She attracts it with stick figures, and I simply discovered it so refreshing and heartwarming.
I’ve been drawing comics like that for a number of years, however I acquired fairly deep in it making this file. I simply felt like I had all this creativity, and I needed to channel it in different methods. And people comics, in the identical method that among the songs do it, make me snort. They’re capable of make me snort after I’m creating them. Once you’re holed up alone and making an attempt to make issues that aren’t too critical, with the ability to snort at what you’re doing is so vital, I believe. There was a number of me laughing writing lyrics and songs and drawing comics throughout this file. I believe a few of that basically shines by. There’s a number of my bandmates laughing – it’s not on file, however I really feel like these are issues that you may actually hear. Or perhaps you may’t hear, however there’s a sense whenever you take heed to a file – you may inform if the band is having enjoyable or if the band thinks what they’re doing is sort of goofy.
Is it simpler for you with comics in comparison with songs?
Effectively, I’ll inform you this. I began writing songs being like, “I suck at this, and I’m gonna simply write songs as a result of it’s enjoyable.” And it turned a job, in a method that I’m so grateful for and so fortunate, however that comes with a distinct kind of stress the place I can write a goofy music like ‘Olive Backyard’, however I can’t write, like, a silly unhealthy music. I do write silly unhealthy songs on a regular basis, however I can’t present these to the world as a result of there’s a distinct kind of expectation. Whereas after I began drawing comics, I felt actually free. I used to be clearly very unhealthy at drawing, and no person anticipated me to be good, and no person anticipated something. I felt so free to create no matter I needed, with out being beholden to anybody or expectations. And there’s simply such a freedom in that. There’s a infantile surprise in making one thing that you don’t have any clue how one can make and don’t care if it’s shit. That’s not one thing that as adults we get to expertise fairly often. That’s one thing that you just expertise whenever you’re a toddler and also you’re finger portray and hitting a guitar for the primary time or no matter. There’s a magic to that.
Making an attempt to seize that in one thing that you just do professionally is subsequent to unattainable. However after I began simply doodling dumb comics, I simply felt like I may do something I needed, and it didn’t matter. I believe that was only a feeling that I’ve at all times been looking for since I began writing songs. Possibly for a number of years it had been missing, and it was good to find that feeling in a distinct type. I believe having that feeling helped me discover pleasure in songwriting, too. Prior to now, perhaps songwriting simply felt like stress, like, “Fuck, I gotta write a file. My bandmates and the label and these individuals, they’re all relying on the file not sucking.” Discovering that feeling in different methods and with the ability to imprint it on the songs was a fairly vital factor for me.
Skateboarding
To me, it’s the identical because the comedian factor. There’s a childlike surprise in discovering this factor. I’ll say, comics I don’t do professionally, but it surely has sort of turn into one thing the place I put out a child’s e-book, and I put out comics. It’s one thing I do for enjoyable, but it surely’s additionally a little bit of a aspect hustle. As soon as I’d been doing that for a pair years, I used to be searching for one thing that would by no means turn into even remotely knowledgeable factor. It needed to simply be a passion for enjoyable. Studying to skateboard at 34 is one thing that’s like, “Effectively, I’m by no means gonna be knowledgeable.” So I may at all times simply know that I’d be unhealthy at it. It was too late for me to be good. However I may simply embrace being unhealthy at it and the enjoyment of studying. Getting out and shifting your physique, there’s one thing about issues like that – I believe lots of people discover it perhaps once they’re working. I hate working. However after I’m skateboarding, I don’t have the capability to consider anything or let my thoughts wander or think about the truth that I’m unhappy. All I can do is deal with, like, not fucking up. [laughs] There’s a consequence: if my thoughts wanders, I’m gonna get harm. So I suppose, in a method, it’s, like, it’s kind of meditative for me. Type of like the final word distraction.
Folks do carry up working or biking, that are additionally actions that allow you to assume up lyrics or course of what you’ve written. It seems like whenever you’re skateboarding, that’s not an choice.
That’s precisely it. I used to be so dialed into songwriting, it was so vital for me to take these breaks the place it was unattainable for me to consider the songs since you begin to ruminate on issues and doubt your self, and also you get caught on particulars. As quickly as I began feeling caught and I’d go skateboarding, it will simply be like, “I can’t take into consideration this. I simply can’t. I’m doing this factor.” After which coming again to the songs after that was a very clean slate. I used to be not pissed off. I may sit down and begin the wheels turning from sq. one in a method that was wholesome for me
Teenage Engineering’s OP-1
I purchased one proper once we completed the final file. After we end a file, I attempt to deal with myself to a bit of musical gear that can kinda assistance on the following one. After we completed Morbid Stuff, I purchased a Fender Rhodes piano, and it actually impressed a number of what occurred on The Unraveling of PUPTheBand. And this time, after that file, I purchased the OP-1, which is just about this tiny little machine that I truly use lots in airplanes. It has a keyboard and a drum machine and a sampler. It’s a robust music pc, and you may make full beats and stuff like that. It’s only a course in music that I’d by no means completed. To that time, I performed guitar and I sang, and I had plunked round on a piano to make a pair songs for the final file, and that was kinda it. This was my first foray into programming drums and enjoying with synth stuff.
None of that stuff in any respect seems on this new file. It’s a really natural file. It’s two guitars, bass, drums, vocals. However the OP-1 acquired me fascinated by music differently. After I acquired caught with the music, I’d sort of try to flip it into, like, an electro beat music. I’d be like, what occurs if I simply take these chords and the melodies and rearrange it and see what occurs? And it kinda labored each methods the place I’ll get caught on a music and I’d take that music to the OP-1 and make this weirdo hip hop, energy pop, whatever-you-wanna-do kinda factor, and it will give me concepts to complete it in the true world. There have been instances the place I used to be simply on airplanes and would make this complete bizarre music after which be like, “I’m wondering what this seems like if I performed it on the guitar and added some phrases.” There have been a bunch of songs that truly got here out of that. ‘Starvation for Dying’ is one music that’s on the OP-1, absolutely programmed, I believe, flying residence from Australia or one thing. The entire instrumental, and I had all of the phrases in my head. Then we tried to rearrange it as a band, and it didn’t actually work. It kinda sat there, and finally, the 4 of us saved it. However that music solely exists as a result of it was an OP-1 observe. It’s only a totally different method to have a look at music for me and expanded a number of my sense of songwriting.
Once you mentioned none of this seems on this file, I used to be fascinated by ‘Starvation for Dying’.
To be clear, the sounds on the file are usually not the OP-1 for that. However I’m fairly certain there have been a number of different ones that started off as OP-1 tracks. ‘Get Dumber’, there was some OP-1 on that. ‘Finest Revenge’ was an OP-1 observe as nicely. Each of these clearly turned simply ripping band songs. It’s extra of an thought machine than a factor to make pop data on.
Mushrooms
I imagine mushrooms come up as soon as on ‘Wanted to Hear It’, and it’s another person doing them.
Yeah, I suppose I did point out mushrooms that one time. I wasn’t actually fascinated by it when it comes to the lyrics. I used to smoke a lot weed rising up, and I spotted that I hate smoking weed, so I ended doing that. I don’t know the way a lot I can say about this, however I’ve been on remedy for psychological well being stuff for some time. And not too long ago, my psychiatrist steered that as a substitute of accelerating the dosage, I truly strive microdosing. So I gave it a shot. I’ve at all times cherished mushrooms recreationally – and once more, I wanna stress that I’m not condoning this. I perceive that I’m a 36-year-old man, and there’s probably youthful youngsters who will learn this. I’m not making an attempt to glamorize medicine, alcohol, something like that – I believe it’s so vital to say. However, I’ve loved mushrooms recreationally, lots.
I did begin microdosing for lots of this file in a method that was extra – I imply, it was beneficial by a health care provider, and it was very managed. I wasn’t simply popping mush caps. I had mushroom drugs. And microdoses are very, very small and delicate, however I did discover myself feeling — I don’t wanna say happier, however perhaps much less mentally disturbed than I’ve been previously, and appreciating extra – actually, taking the canines for walks, after I began microdosing I used to be like, “I can stroll eternally. I may simply be out right here and benefit from the snow blasting in my face as a result of I’m simply actually current.” It simply helped me really feel extra current in my life. I don’t know if that essentially helped instantly with creativity, but it surely positively helped simply being extra conscious of my ideas at instances. I hate weed for myself – no private judgment for anybody, I simply don’t smoke it anymore in any respect – and that is one thing that was giving me what I at all times needed to get out of weed. Once more, I actually don’t need it to appear like I’m telling youngsters to exit and take a look at mushrooms as a result of I’m actually, actually not. It’s not for everyone. It may be harmful. I exploit them very rigorously, and it’s what my particular mind wanted at that second in my life.
You mentioned you have been extra conscious of your ideas. Have been you additionally extra vulnerable to writing them down?
I believe talking about being extra current and conscious is simply registering these ideas. Plenty of songwriting for me is making an attempt to determine how I really feel – like, I do know I really feel unhealthy or I do know I really feel good, however I don’t know why, and I’m making an attempt to unravel it a number of the time. Being current and conscious was one thing that basically helped me perceive my feelings faster. And due to that, I used to be capable of, I believe, articulate them higher and extra instantly than I’ve previously. Mushrooms are most likely a small a part of that, however a number of additionally it is solitude, having quiet area, doing remedy, and studying books.
Residence renovation movies on YouTube
I don’t assume you’ve talked about this an excessive amount of, however I noticed you talked about it in Dan Ozzi’s Substack 5 years in the past, saying you discover these DIY movies fairly comforting. Has it been a continuing for that lengthy?
Yeah, I’m going by phases on that. Lots of people flip off their brains by watching actuality TV. I’m a little bit bit, to my detriment, obsessive about productiveness; apart from skateboarding, the whole lot on this listing is someway related to me doing stuff. Creating, caring for a canine. That obsession with productiveness comes out as – if I would like to show my mind off, I wanna flip my mind off and study one thing. So I find yourself watching all these silly reno movies. It’s like, why do I do know this a lot about, like, weeping tile? Why do I do know this a lot about how one can pour a very good basis? I’m by no means gonna try this in my life. However I’ve absorbed that information as a strategy to shut my mind off, particularly if I’m ruminating on a music. It’s like one within the morning and I can’t sleep, I’m simply going by this verse and making an attempt to determine what’s incorrect with it, and I do know I’m not getting anyplace, it’s like, “Time for some residence reno movies.”
I do a number of primary reno stuff myself and construct furnishings – simply actually primary stuff, however I do like it. It’s a factor that additionally turns my mind off, the way in which that skateboarding does, as a result of I’ve to be targeted on it. Watching these movies, I really feel like I’m absorbing a few of that information and being productive, but additionally pushing all of the tough emotions to the aspect. Being alone along with your ideas for too lengthy will be actually difficult and darkish. And typically to get out of that zone, I simply gotta find out about plumbing.
This interview has been edited and condensed for readability and size.
PUP’s Who Will Look After the Canines? is out now by way of Little Dipper/Rise Data.
