Nina Chanel Abney and Jeffrey Deitch On Discovering the True Artist’s Voice [Exclusive] — Colossal

This dialog is an unique excerpt from NINA CHANEL ABNEY © 2025. Reproduced by permission from The Monacelli Press. All rights reserved. This interview has been edited for size and readability.

Jeffrey Deitch: Nina, I’ve at all times been impressed by your expansive imaginative and prescient of what an artist can do. Your achievement in portray and works on paper is admittedly excellent—as is your NFT startup; your curiosity in multiples—however I’m very interested by your curiosity in public artwork murals. We did a number of of them collectively; so Iʼd prefer to ask you to start out [by speaking] about this expansive imaginative and prescient you’ve about being an artist and reaching a broad public.

Nina Chanel Abney: I feel it first comes out of my pure inclination to work in many alternative mediums. Rising up and [the work of] Henri Matisse and Andy Warhol, my understanding of a masterful artist was an artist who developed their apply via experimentation with totally different mediums. After I knew I wished to be an artist, I aspired to have a profession wherein every physique of labor propels my apply ahead.

Deitch: I bear in mind a dialogue we had some years in the past about proposing a balloon for the Macyʼs Thanksgiving Day Parade. They didn’t perceive how nice you have been, however I used to be very impressed then—and that was some years in the past—very impressed by your ambition to achieve folks together with your artwork.

Abney: I’ve at all times appreciated graffiti artists and their potential to achieve a broad viewers. The concept anybody may entry artwork simply by strolling by it and the concept of having the ability to share my work with a bigger public has change into extra attention-grabbing for me, displaying folks how one can uncover artwork within the on a regular basis—whether or not thatʼs a sneaker or a billboard. I’m at all times seeking to discover new methods to try this.

Deitch: Our first mission collectively was your nice mural at Coney Island. By some means, I had the intuition that we needed to place you proper on the heart, provide the nice entrance wall, and your work was phenomenal.

Abney: Thanks very a lot.

Deitch: Was that one of many first public murals you probably did?

Abney: Sure, it was one of many first. The very first one I did was in Newark, New Jersey, off of McCarter Freeway with Challenge for Empty House. They did a program the place they labored with about eighteen totally different artists via a protracted span of the freeway, and every artist obtained a bit of the wall. When given the chance, I stated, “In fact I’ll do it.”

Most everybody concerned was a full-time graffiti artist. I fully underestimated what the mission would entail. We have been working loopy hours to keep away from visitors, mainly midnight to five:00 a.m. It was about 1:00 a.m. and I went there with spray paint in hand, arrogantly pondering I may simply begin working immediately on the wall. I noticed, “Oh my God that is… a complete different approach of working, a expertise I don’t have.” I used to be on the verge of tears, panicking at 3:00 within the morning on the aspect of the freeway, pondering, “I don’t even know the way to do that.” It was a studying curve.

In that second, I had to determine how you can translate my work right into a large-scale mural. Thatʼs after I started utilizing tape and creating stencils to adapt my imagery to a bigger scale. That was the very first mural. After I conquered the primary mural, I did one in Detroit with Library Road Collective and Coney Island got here after. Thankfully, each alternative led to a different, permitting me to enhance my approach alongside the way in which. I’d nonetheless do a balloon [for the Macyʼs parade]. I discovered a loophole, I feel.

Deitch: That will be very thrilling. I like the way you suppose. By the point you probably did your third mural at Coney Island, you had completely perfected it. It was unimaginable and so spectacular to see you and your workforce. We extra not too long ago did this mission in Miami with two gigantic multi-story partitions and a tunnel, and that was phenomenal. It was superb to see the way you had put collectively this workforce that lets you create huge works of public artwork.

Abney: At first, I used to be doing the murals with one studio assistant, which was labor intensive as a result of I work intuitively. It actually felt like doing a particularly massive portray in a really condensed timeline, generally lower than per week. It didn’t appear sustainable. Additionally, I noticed that possibly I’m somewhat afraid of heights. Thatʼs after I got here up with a special technique.

My good friend JJ, who helps me handle my mural initiatives, launched me to an incredible workforce of ladies painters who’re able to engaged on the aspect of skyscrapers with no concern. Theyʼre badass and have been serving to me paint murals ever since. There’s nice synergy.

Deitch: Oh, thatʼs fascinating. Iʼd like to speak about the way you strategy the work. I learn in a earlier interview that you don’t do preparatory sketches. Is that appropriate? It appeared with the complexity your work, one would suppose that there are quite a few preparatory sketches.

Abney: There will not be. If I sketched the piece beforehand, Iʼd lose curiosity and wouldn’t need to paint it. The thrill for me comes from the unknown—the spontaneity and problem-solving within the second to create a cohesive composition.

Deitch: Thatʼs extraordinary. It’s very uncommon that an artist can create these large-scale advanced works with out quite a few preparatory drawings. I’ve seen that with Keith Haring, who would be capable of begin a big portray or mural within the higher left nook and transfer throughout, however thatʼs superb that that is all internalized. It’s virtually like a jazz improvisation that you just do.

Abney: Every portray turns into a puzzle for me to resolve.

Deitch: One thing that I like immensely in your work is the inherent rhythm of the composition: in basic essential artwork phrases, one talks in regards to the colour, the sting, issues that you just affiliate with portray. Rhythm doesn’t usually come up, however thatʼs one thing thatʼs so inherent in your work. Taking a look at a big portray of yours, I can see it transfer. I can really feel the rhythm. Iʼd prefer to ask you about that side of your work, as a result of thatʼs fairly distinctive.

Abney: The work is rhythmic as a result of I goal to create motion throughout the canvas in order that the viewer’s gaze is rarely stagnant. To attain this, I’ve created programs and methods that make the most of colour, form, repetition, and textual content. I need the work to maintain your consideration.

Deitch: Do you’ve a background as an athlete or a dancer? The rhythm is so bodily.

Abney: I performed tennis. I nonetheless play tennis. I performed soccer, basketball… I used to be at all times very athletic after I was youthful, and I play the piano.

Deitch: I didn’t know that. Do you’ve a classical coaching or was it extra jazz piano?

Abney: Classical, however I’ve at all times wished to be taught jazz. I’ve a number of cousins who have been self-taught jazz [musicians].

Deitch: Your improvisational expertise goes into the portray?

Abney: Sure.

Deitch: Thatʼs so fascinating, as a result of your work do have a sound, in a approach.

Abney: I’d like to be taught jazz. I not too long ago purchased some books and a piano to attempt to educate myself.

Deitch: Did you get to the purpose the place you have been a performer additionally or was it extra simply your individual examine?

Abney: With classical, I carried out in recitals as a child with my stepsister, who was, on the time, studying opera. It’s so wild after I give it some thought. We might do some recitals collectively, I’d play and she or he would sing. Exterior of that, after a sure level, I didn’t actually take it up. I really feel like I give up after I noticed I wanted glasses or one thing. That was within the ’80s, early childhood, however I stored with it. I can nonetheless play now.

Deitch: Let’s discuss your trajectory. There’s an uncommon yr the place you labored in a Ford manufacturing unit, one of many solely up to date artists I do know who truly had that sort of expertise. It appears that evidently and different points of your background had given you a sympathy for the working class. Your artwork addresses on a regular basis folks within the metropolis, not solely the artwork elite.

Abney: I’m on a regular basis folks, I come from on a regular basis folks. My mother labored for nearly forty years on the unemployment company, my stepfather delivered Pepsi®. I come from humble beginnings, so being catapulted into this elite artwork world has been attention-grabbing. I nonetheless really feel like an outsider generally, although I’m part of this “artwork world.”

Deitch: A variety of your work has a powerful social-political message. Iʼd prefer to ask you about the way you combine messaging with the formal points of the work.

Abney: My complete approach of working, from colour, humor, and seducing the viewer into difficult matters in a approach wherein they need to keep, comes from my very own expertise with art work. I seen that with works which can be overly didactic, folks have a tendency to not spend a lot time with them since they really feel like they have already got the work found out. I need to create work that may be visually participating: it will possibly make you suppose, but in addition, provoke self-interrogation.

Deitch: It’s additionally fascinating the way in which you invite entry into the work by your use of humor.

Abney: After I was youthful, I wished to be a cartoonist. I like essentially the most sarcastic animations. I used to be an enormous fan of Hanna-Barbera. Thatʼs the place I obtained my humorousness. With animation, you possibly can stroll the road of inappropriateness. I’m taken with that play, too.

Deitch: Do you’ve some plans for an animated movie?

Abney: I truly wrote a cartoon with my accomplice, Jet Toomer, and our good friend, Zoe Lister-Jones. We wrote a cartoon primarily based off me and my youthful sister’s relationship, however we threw a wrench in. Now we have turned the household construction thatʼs normally depicted in animation on its head.

Deitch: It sounds good. Possibly I might help you to make that occur.

Abney: Possibly. I’m even pondering possibly a brief movie, centered across the identical idea, and would like to do it on the Sundance Movie Pageant as a result of they’ve an animation program. The movie business, from what I’ve realized, is so totally different, even within the strategy to possession and mental property. I really feel like I’m extra independent-minded on the subject of that, the place Iʼd quite take the time and do it myself.

Deitch: Properly, thatʼs one of many biggest issues about being an artist: You would not have a boss. No person’s telling you what you are able to do.

Abney: I don’t need to need to compromise my imaginative and prescient to make issues extra mainstream. Once you’re not conforming, folks would possibly see it as dangerous, however there are communities which can be not often thought of in movie and tv and thatʼs who I want to prioritize.

Deitch: Fascinating. I anticipate it is possible for you to to comprehend this.

Abney: I hope so.

Deitch: In your strategy to your artwork, there’s loads of references from the vernacular—you talked about strip golf equipment and sororities—however you even have so many deep artwork historic references. I think about you’ve deeply studied Pablo Picasso, Romare Bearden, Stuart Davis… I need to ask you about these artwork historic references that you just construct on, which can be inside your work, that you have to have studied.

Abney: Really, comic story, Stuart Davis… I hadn’t even heard of him till I used to be engaged on a present referred to as I DREAD TO THINK [October 18 – November 24, 2012, at Kravets Wehby Gallery, in collaboration with Anna Kustera Gallery, New York, NY]. After I was engaged on that present, Lowery Stokes Sims got here to my studio and introduced up Stuart Davis, assuming I used to be conscious of his work. Instantly after that, I used to be obsessed. I didn’t know a lot about up to date artwork till I got here to New York for graduate faculty at Parsons College of Design.

The primary present I went to was a Marina Abramović efficiency on the Guggenheim and my thoughts was blown. Parsons was an intense training as a result of I used to be enjoying catch as much as the up to date artwork historical past whereas making an attempt to change into a recent artist, myself.

My references got here from what was out there to me after I was youthful. I imply, everybody is aware of Picasso. I had area journeys to the Artwork Institute of Chicago, the place I realized about Chuck Shut and Georges Seurat. I had some publicity to Black artists via The Cosby Present.

Deitch: Actually? From the TV present? Thatʼs fascinating. It should be thrilling so that you can see your work influencing artists who’re of the youthful era.

Abney: It’s surreal to know that my work is being studied in courses. I nonetheless can’t consider it. As a result of I’ve change into an affect to others, I really feel a accountability to maintain pushing the boundaries of my very own apply, exploring new mediums and delving into industries wherein individuals who appear to be me aren’t represented. It’s loopy to suppose that I might be part of artwork historical past. Should you named the interval of artwork we’re in now, what wouldn’t it be? I don’t know…

Deitch: Properly, you’re one of many folks defining it. Fascinating to know that you just studied each pc science and artwork, as a result of most artists, if you happen to ask, “What did you examine?” they’ll in all probability say poetry and artwork. I feel possibly a part of the rigor thatʼs in your work comes from this examine of pc science. May you elaborate somewhat bit about that, in regards to the twin thoughts that you just deliver to your art work?

Abney: I supposed on being a pc programmer as a result of I couldn’t fathom having a profession as an artist. I didn’t know the way artists made cash and I wanted a sustainable job, however I didn’t like going to work. After I began the most important, nevertheless, I rapidly thought, “This isn’t for me.” It was hours of making an attempt to determine a program that will merely not work due to a lacking semicolon.

All the pieces occurs for a purpose. My grades have been horrible. I used to be barely holding onto my pc science main. And simply after I thought issues couldn’t worsen, I used to be serving to a good friend together with his homework and he by chance turned in a replica of my homework as his. After I get my project again from the professor, I’ve an enormous F written in purple marker. I take a look at my good friend like, “What occurred?” The professor had circled my title on his paper—he additionally had an F. It was a significant project, and she or he wouldn’t change my grade. That class was so important, it put my main in jeopardy, so I dropped pc science and centered on artwork.

I additionally wished to be a graphic designer. I used to be studying how you can design web sites throughout my summers off. I believed, “Graphic design, thatʼs how I’ll receives a commission as an artist,” however after I obtained out of undergrad, I obtained just about rejected from each graphic design program I utilized to. I labored for somewhat bit and thatʼs after I stated, “Possibly I’ll attempt portray.” Thatʼs how that each one took place.

I nonetheless have a particular curiosity in graphic design… I really feel like most individuals don’t understand that we have been all educating ourselves HTML code to create cool pages on Black Planet. We have been studying HTML to play music play or function graphics on our social media pages. I used to be fascinated by it.

Deitch: Previous to our discuss, I used to be wanting via the catalog of your exhibition on the Nasher Museum of Artwork. It’s very attention-grabbing to see how your work has developed. The figures have been a lot looser, Iʼd say rather less rhythmic within the composition, and progressively change into extra abstracted, the rhythms extra advanced. Iʼd prefer to ask you in regards to the evolution of your work over this era.

Abney: My work was at all times critiqued for being too flat, so I had a selected preconceived notion of what a “good” portray was, and that was one which was rendered realistically. The sooner work is a by-product of this mentality. During the last twenty years, I’ve been transferring away from this mind-set and in direction of abstraction, which I really feel is extra liberating.

Deitch: You’ve developed a unique fashion thatʼs solely you, that’s immediately recognizable, which is sort of an achievement.

Abney: Thanks. It’s been a protracted journey to dam out the noise and be in tune with my very own voice.

Deitch: You might have your individual inventive vocabulary thatʼs yours. It’s exceptional. Only a few artists can obtain that.

Abney: Thanks. I’m nonetheless making an attempt to unlearn just a few issues which have been restrictive to my apply, however I really feel like I’m now at 80 p.c of my true artist voice. There’s nonetheless work to be achieved.

Deitch: It’s good that you just nonetheless have one other 20 p.c to attain. One thing that fascinates me is that you just’ve been in a position to put collectively a story, the place a few of your work tells a narrative with an summary set of photos. Thatʼs fairly uncommon to have the ability to be narrative, daring, and summary on the identical time. I feel thatʼs fairly an achievement.

Abney: When approaching my work that’s representational, I goal to determine the least quantity of knowledge wanted. Thatʼs how I strategy the imagery in my work now. For instance, what’s the least quantity of knowledge wanted for one to register a determine? How do I break this right down to the best kind? I attempt to take away pointless data to create a language that turns into common.

Deitch: One other attribute of your work is the combination of textual content. You’re utilizing textual content virtually as an abstraction, however it additionally turns into an important a part of the narrative.

Abney: I began utilizing textual content as a result of there are specific issues I felt I simply couldn’t paint. Some issues simply have to be stated plainly. I additionally see letters and numbers as varieties and shapes. I’m additionally taken with the usage of textual content in commercials.

Deitch: I take a look at your work as taking Pop artwork into the current.

Abney: I like Pop artwork, so thatʼs what I’d hope to be reaching proper now with my present work.

Deitch: You’re increasing into different media—some formidable sculpture is coming. Iʼd prefer to ask you about your sculpture in relationship to the portray.

Abney: I’ve at all times wished to work in sculpture, however I used to be ready till the best second. I couldn’t determine how I may organically translate my work to sculpture. I had no concept what my sculpture was going to appear to be. It took a lot time to determine it out and now it’s lastly right here.
I took step one by making a vinyl toy, which allowed me to see how my work may look three-dimensionally. That was the beginning and issues have been rapidly evolving. Up to now yr alone, I’ve revamped ten sculptural works. Finally, I need to do massive public sculpture that may be interactive. I’m not essentially taken with creating monuments, however works that folks can sit on, sculpture that’s purposeful.

Deitch: I learn some thrilling information this week about your being chosen as one of many artists commissioned for New York’s new John F. Kennedy Worldwide Airport terminal. It appeared that you just have been pondering of doing a sculpture.

Abney: I’m. I’m working with a cloth I’ve by no means labored with earlier than, stained glass, impressed by New York Metropolis iconography.

Deitch: That will likely be good. Now, we’re right here at Tempo Prints in New York Metropolis for this dialog, and also you’ve actually reinvented how you can make a print, how you can make collage. I’m fascinated by the way you’ve taken this well-traveled medium of all of the artists who’ve made prints or works on paper and also you’ve achieved it in a contemporary approach.

Abney: I held out for years when it got here to doing prints. Many printmakers or print retailers would strategy me and say, “, your work would translate so nicely to print-making,” and I’d flip them down in hopes of working particularly with Tempo Prints. Additionally, my understanding of prints was restricted. After I considered an version, I solely considered a picture of an current work. So for the longest time, I used to be not taken with doing this.

I obtained a C in my printmaking class. I didn’t have sufficient persistence for the method. I did an etching, and it was essentially the most tedious factor, so I by no means thought I’d find yourself loving printmaking. Thankfully, I used to be launched to [President of Pace Prints] Jacob Lewis and the printmakers of Tempo Prints. I used to be blown away by the work that they have been doing.

We began working collectively, and it’s such a collaborative course of. We problem one another to suppose past conventional printmaking and create distinctive works that discover collage and develop the dialog round paper as a medium.

Deitch: Properly, your prints have the influence of advanced work.

Abney: Thatʼs what we hope to attain.

Deitch: Of all of the necessary up to date artists I comply with, your work is sexier than virtually anybody else’s, however it’s by no means vulgar. Iʼd prefer to ask you about the way you insert the sexuality and the sexual energy within the work on this sturdy approach thatʼs elegant and impactful, however by no means vulgar.

Abney: It comes from a honest place of eager to destigmatize the concept sexuality is vulgar… and thatʼs one of many causes I moved to New York—it’s forward-thinking power fosters self-expression and challenges outdated norms.

I’ve at all times wished to inform you that after I first got here [to New York] to go to graduate faculty, your gallery was one of many first that I went to. You had a present with Kehinde Wiley with a band that carried out on Wooster Road and that blew my thoughts. It was a really impactful expertise that expanded what I considered artwork as an expression and as a profession.

Deitch: That was our aim, to encourage folks. I actually, actually love listening to that it had such an influence on you.

Abney: I’ve at all times wished to work with you as a result of your exhibitions are formidable, enjoyable, sensible, and never so uptight. With our February 2025 present [Winging It], it’s a full circle second.

Deitch: Let’s shut by speaking about what you hope to comprehend within the subsequent few years, increasing your work, each pushing the portray apply and likewise increasing into extra in style areas.

Abney: I need to prioritize sculpture and public work within the coming years. Proper now, I’m very taken with set up. I’ve been eager about Yayoi Kusama’s Infinity Mirror Rooms—one thing extra experiential that may journey. Additionally, animation manufacturing, and I can do one thing new in that area that hasn’t been achieved earlier than. I’m additionally very a lot taken with creating extra merchandise, particularly, sneakers.

Deitch: Lots to look ahead to.

Decide up a replica of Nina Chanel Abney, which will likely be launched on October 23, within the Colossal Store. Restricted signed copies can be found from Phaidon. Discover extra from the artist on her web site and Instagram.